The reason for the large difference is the eco multiplier. Which should be included in all expos. Not just the discovery class.
Removed I didnt even realize they snuck that in there for discoverer. What monkey is running things over at GF?
Warned for foul language- Andvari300
I'm not saying you're risking billions with the expos.... Unless you are rank 1 by a long shot you still have to fs right? I think it's safe to say having a fleet with 1 million or more ships is a lot harder to keep alive then a bunch of cargos. If you don't know why you need that many ships for expos then you're doing it wrong and no sorry I won't tell you why
I'm not saying you're risking billions with the expos.... Unless you are rank 1 by a long shot you still have to fs right? I think it's safe to say having a fleet with 1 million or more ships is a lot harder to keep alive then a bunch of cargos. If you don't know why you need that many ships for expos then you're doing it wrong and no sorry I won't tell you why
You see the thing is it's nothing separating discoverers need to fleetsave from other classes - so that's something you don't understand.
The other thing you don't understand is you DO NOT need, and I quote you "billions in fleet" to get the maximum reward from expeditions, even if the top player has more than 100 Million points you still need only about 25 000 expedition points ((structural integrity * 5) / 1000))
This might have been changed slightly, but not to any big noticeable degree - so cut the attitude.
That's a drop in the ocean compared to any properly sized fleet or for that matter, you daily production at 100+ mil points.
Dude you obviously are missing out on the best part of expos and I'm not going to tell you what it is 😂🤷 anyways no point in arguing with the ignorant
Dude you obviously are missing out on the best part of expos and I'm not going to tell you what it is 😂🤷 anyways no point in arguing with the ignorant
I would be happy if you could tell us what we are missing in the discussion, but I am sure you will pull your one-liners out of pride and contribute nothing further here.
When you do, I'd love to have a discussion with you or anyone else.
like he has actually said multiple times, you need fleet to fight aliens/pirates. the roi on them is the same no matter the scale you do it on. that is making it by far the biggest advantage of discoverer. to benefit from it you need to invest billions in fleet. debating the general finds (without debating expo fights) is debating pennies over dollars
like he has actually said multiple times, you need fleet to fight aliens/pirates. the roi on them is the same no matter the scale you do it on. that is making it by far the biggest advantage of discoverer. to benefit from it you need to invest billions in fleet. debating the general finds (without debating expo fights) is debating pennies over dollars
Why would you ever send combat ships to battle aliens instead of just taking the DF and move on to a new expedition? That's literally a waste of deut for no gain at all, the extra combat ships you are discussing sending would equal a loss in deuterium in the end compared to the risk of meeting aliens. Pirates will get defeated by only 1x bomber and 250 Large Cargoes.
The issue is Discoverers realistically speaking are risking nothing over the course of 50+ expeditions compared to fleeters risking it all every day and collectors having to constantly balance not only mine output with defenses but also investment in cargo fleet and upgrades to mines, in a new kind of uni that is constantly lacking crystal.
threeflipskat3r you were right, no point in debating the ignorant.
Disturbance when you find out in a couple months what we mean you will hopefuly realize how wrong you are and how much profit you missed out on, even after youve been explained twice now
Disturbance I guess you're not aware of what the results of battling Aliens and Pirates and the profit they are getting from it. Yes it does cost deuterium, however because it is in system and holding for an hour, the amount of deuterium being used is significantly lower than they are actually making in the battles. The ridiculous metal and crystal they harvest can be traded for enough deuterium for at least a dozen more expeditions with their entire fleets and they still keep about 90% after trading that.
Disturbance I guess you're not aware of what the results of battling Aliens and Pirates and the profit they are getting from it. Yes it does cost deuterium, however because it is in system and holding for an hour, the amount of deuterium being used is significantly lower than they are actually making in the battles. The ridiculous metal and crystal they harvest can be traded for enough deuterium for at least a dozen more expeditions with their entire fleets and they still keep about 90% after trading that.
Bingo. Its like crashing someones fleet everyday with 100% predictable certainty and 0 risk of brainpower needed. Yea, you might be expeditions of nothing or blackholes, but mathematically you WILL pull a massive profit (as we see with the discoverers growing exponentially). Its broken
This was posted on the .EN thread. If you're a fleeter, is much more profitable to go discoverer and spam a ton of LF out on expeditions. Crazy profit potential as shown in the picture below.
That is something I have missed - the question then is: How is this in any way shape or form not ANOTHER advantage over those I mentioned previously?
It's like you missed the entire point of the discussion being discoverers gaining a big unfair advantage of having endless possibilities of profits compared to other classes? This does explain a big part of why discoverers are gaining massively in ranks to me, a puzzle piece I have totally overlooked.
Thanks a lot to those explaining instead of throwing up an attitude.
Well what the hell everyone you let the cat out of the bag, that guy was being a total ass clown and you handed him the info on a silver platter, what happened to doing a little research?
Disturbance dude I wasn't trying to be a dick but you were really asking for it. So again I ask you is it just as easy to keep a cargo fleet alive as a fleet of millions of ships that paints a big red target on your back? I'm sorry but more risk equals more reward plain and simple. Discoverer should always be > then collector. The real imbalance is general class being less then both as that has the most risk
Well what the hell everyone you let the cat out of the bag, that guy was being a total ass clown and you handed him the info on a silver platter, what happened to doing a little research?
Disturbance dude I wasn't trying to be a dick but you were really asking for it. So again I ask you is it just as easy to keep a cargo fleet alive as a fleet of millions of ships that paints a big red target on your back? I'm sorry but more risk equals more reward plain and simple. Discoverer should always be > then collector. The real imbalance is general class being less then both as that has the most risk
Admitted I was wrong, move on.
You are still missing the main issue - When a discoverer eventually has a moon and send his fleet out on expos all day he is taking literally no risk whatsoever - what I though was the risk you were talking about multiple people now told me was basically getting free computer generated fleets to take on, fleets that can not call for help from allies, nor be scanned, nor be ninjad, nor be contested by others.
This explains even further why discoverers are so insanely overpowered it is literally a cashgrab from gameforge at this point. There is no realistic way to counter this stream of income while fleeters compete over fleets to hunt and miners compete over business partners and balancing defences aswell as investments in mines.
And to answer your question - Yes, it's just as easy except for the deuterium cost combat ships bring with them, a cost discoverers basically can get around in a way no generals can(the two big fleet classes in the game currently) as discoverers find millions of deuterium daily on their expeditions.
You are missing my point and I was missing a new part of the game.
Or like Divinity said: "Bingo. Its like crashing someones fleet everyday with 100% predictable certainty and 0 risk of brainpower needed. Yea, you might be expeditions of nothing or blackholes, but mathematically you WILL pull a massive profit (as we see with the discoverers growing exponentially). Its broken"
This pushes me further away from actually even wanting to try to compete against a class that by design does not have to compete with others over trading-partners, fleets to crash or be involved in the diplomacy fleeting requires to not have all your attacks phalanxed and reversed.
Yeah, that seems pretty broken. You'd think it would be a simple thing for GF to track income, and realize the imbalance. It sounds even easier than being a miner.
And look, they are getting a 3 day event to boot! Is there any kind of fleeter specific event like they get?
I mean let’s all agree, even if you’re a discoverer you know it’s broken. Between uni Econ speed increasing rewards only for discoverer ON TOP OF the infinite free res from crashing pirate and alien fleets... and that’s without mentioning the other benefits the class brings lmao. The numbers need to be brought back in line, not only do you get to have a massive fleet but you get a 100% guaranteed profit enlarging it. Expeditions -> yummy Df -> reinvest into bigger fleet -> even more yummy Df. It’s the optimal point gain strategy right now and requires -15 IQ
And I’ll preempt some dumbo here (namely threeflipskat3r) who is suggesting “duh, just crash the fleet!!!“
See here’s the thing - when moons come into play that becomes significantly more difficult AND only possible until they outpace you and inevitably pass you in size. What this did to the Meta is pretty unprecedented actually. Having a big standing fleet use to be an expense, where if you aren’t actively crashing people it’s actually a waste of res and costing you to keep. Now; however, with the DF from expeditions it’s actually giving insane PROFIT on top of the other benefits of having a massive fleet. One of the biggest negatives to a big fleet is it going unused and squandering res that could’ve gone elsewhere. Now that’s gone (but only for this class). The biggest fleets belong to discoverers and they get rewarded for it, no one will be able to catch up until they further adjust the numbers
Yeah, that seems pretty broken. You'd think it would be a simple thing for GF to track income, and realize the imbalance. It sounds even easier than being a miner.
And look, they are getting a 3 day event to boot! Is there any kind of fleeter specific event like they get?
There is actually one, where you can find DF with Dark Matter in uni, has happened once in Cosmos uni - once. But yeah, it's broken as you say.
My point was never that I knew everything, my point was discos being overpowered AF and Gameforge refuses to answer us costumers. It's killing unis at an insane speed.
Hey guys, how about a little less name-calling? Let's be kind to each other, we're all in this crazy thing together, after all. 
I think one of the main issues that General class has compared to the other two classes, is that their bonuses don't scale as well.
Starting out, +100% ship speed bonus is great. But once you have a lot of drive tech, those bonuses become more and more insignificant. If you're getting +100,000 speed from tech, what difference is an extra 7000 from General bonus?
+2 fleet slots is great, but it becomes a smaller and smaller % bonus, the higher your computer tech is.
+20% combat tech is great, but that 20% becomes more and more insignificant as your tech increases.
The Collector and Discoverer bonuses become exponentially better as you progress. But a General just gets the deut savings that scales well.
I think that one solution, is to change the way the speed bonus from General works. Reduce the multiplier, but have it multiply off your total speed value. For example, make the bonus +25% speed, but multiplied after your bonus from drives is added. So speed = (Base ship speed + drive tech bonus) x 1.25.
