Whats the gameplan?

I appreciate that...but I disagree with you about the balance. I have felt for a number of years that the game was unbalanced in favor of fleeters/online grinders. There was too much ability to drive casual/less committed people out of the game, which leads to unis dying faster. Maybe I'm oversimplifying the reason for Unis dying off, or there are other factors I'm not acknowledging.

Adding features that DM will support, improving gameplay for areas away from fleeting, and the classes all feel like an attempt to improve other areas of gameplay. It is also an attempt to improve cash flow out of the game and get a regular stream of income from a base of players, but that is what every game dev out there strives for.

Disturbance another thought I have regarding balance, I think the 75% loot for inactives should not be a discoverer class perk, it should be a General class. Generals are already pre-disposed to raiding and hitting players. A pure discoverer probably won't waste the extra time/fleet slot on a raid unless its a hugely profitable one. Therefore its more or less a wasted perk. Ditto the extended phalanx range. Feels like those two bonuses should be in the General class.

Quote from LaTuFu

I appreciate that...but I disagree with you about the balance. I have felt for a number of years that the game was unbalanced in favor of fleeters/online grinders. There was too much ability to drive casual/less committed people out of the game, which leads to unis dying faster. Maybe I'm oversimplifying the reason for Unis dying off, or there are other factors I'm not acknowledging.

Adding features that DM will support, improving gameplay for areas away from fleeting, and the classes all feel like an attempt to improve other areas of gameplay. It is also an attempt to improve cash flow out of the game and get a regular stream of income from a base of players, but that is what every game dev out there strives for.

I can agree with that - except I feel being online and active should be rewarding in itself, the flipside of this being Collector class which currently I see no issue with at all even though many who choose that class is in the top 25, it's a good example of balancing the game. The discoverer class is a weird hybrid between rewarding semi-online players giving them the option to fleet and PvE - both insanely good income revenues, they basically outpace both classes without needing to risk much nor be online much.

I have made the point about collectors being well-balanced before because you basically do take a risk, you income is your planets and those can be hit - leaving many options of either IPMs or Def-bashing to get to someones income.

The discoverer class is basically immune to any form of counters as moons can be replaced almost instantly, fleets they use for income can therefor neither be tracked or their income revenue be hit. On the other hand I also feel Generals are in a good position balance wise, it's discoverers being over tuned to the point where you can play in such a way that no one can ever get to you. No other class has that advantage and that's the issue I see.

When it comes to dying unis, this discussion has also been around for a long long time and take my universe (Cosmos) for example - We had 2k "active" players 2 months ago, 1k active players a month ago, and we are soon down to 600 people. So the changes to classes did absolutely nothing to counter this. I think the issue is people who are less experienced nowadays see universes as a one time match, either you win or you lose - they don't consider getting back into the game and rebuilding. For me the spacedock has solved this issue, you get a bunch of ships back and can therefor start raiding inactives etc to increase income.

Seeing as both me and my alliance mate have both been crashed quite hard, it was apparent which class could get back on its feet easily - while I made an average of 70-80 raids a day to get back to my points within a week, my alliance mate mostly got his fleet from running expeditions and getting res/ships for free. It means that if I would've played that class I wouldn't have needed to put in that work at all.

But also, that's a risk fleeters like me take and I am well aware of it - hence why I am not arguing for Generals to get extra benefits but rather Discoverer to need to put in some work to be on par with other fleeters(whichever class they choose)

All fair points.

Let me clarify, I do agree that someone who is willing to play and invest the time (I have always believed time is the most precious resource in Ogame) should be rewarded. I just think there should be some mechanics in place to help offset the bashing aspect that can occur when the ones with time get to an OP place.

I don't think Discoverer is as much a "hands off and still get a lot" class like Collector, though. I think it is somewhat of a hybrid between Collector and General. If "Collector" is a log in once or twice a day style, and "General" is a online for hours at a time style, the Discoverer lands somewhere in the middle. You're not going to max the benefits of Discoverer logging in once or twice a day is what I'm saying.

Quote from LaTuFu

All fair points.

Let me clarify, I do agree that someone who is willing to play and invest the time (I have always believed time is the most precious resource in Ogame) should be rewarded. I just think there should be some mechanics in place to help offset the bashing aspect that can occur when the ones with time get to an OP place.

I don't think Discoverer is as much a "hands off and still get a lot" class like Collector, though. I think it is somewhat of a hybrid between Collector and General. If "Collector" is a log in once or twice a day style, and "General" is a online for hours at a time style, the Discoverer lands somewhere in the middle. You're not going to max the benefits of Discoverer logging in once or twice a day is what I'm saying.

That is all true as well. The problem is see is discoverers who are online all day - which is probably also what makes this so hard to balance out. Perhaps a hard cap of how many alien/pirate fleets one can run in to daily could solve this, capping it in a way that makes the pirates "run out of fleets" to get crashed for example.

There could also perhaps be the options of spying out where pirate/alien fleets are not yet depleted, that would in a sense bring back a way to counter Discoverers as you can track where they are sending their fleets to and therefor guestimate things such as fleet comp sent and time returning without the need of phalanx.

Quote from Dic031

Hahahah i dont care man

Its fun reading this

Crying over something like ogame its crazy

U really think that something will change because u 2 said the class is overpowered??
guys u had option on begining

Why did u chose blue pill instead the red one..

I am glad I chose General, and would choose it again without a second thought. If I started on a new Uni, I'd choose General.

I do not find sending fleets out and gaining resources without playing against anyone, to be even remotely fun in the slightest. I might as well just make up my own pencil and paper Ogame and play myself on a notepad. But this doesn't mean others can't enjoy it that way, or aren't willing to suffer through it in order to make the overpowered income.

The very fact that you even assume that we are posting here because we are salty that we make less profit than Discoverer, is insulting. I personally care about the health of the game, and I know from experience from playing decades of online games, that major imbalances in games pushes people away.

But thank you for helping prove our arguments are correct by admitting Discoverer is overpowered.

ares youre the best ,y its just a class,without it i would be a grey player

The only real counterplay is moon destruction, I think. And I don't think a lot of Discoverers are building RIPs or many Destroyers, to counter RIPs.

Quote from Divinity

I think you're good and determined, we both know this. But we also know that disco has helped the exponential success, and theres 0% chance of a non-disco class player competing vs you = class needs to be reevaluated. You'll succeed whatever the class system is like, in this case its just clear discoverer is particularly broken with whats possible with it (and likewise impossible with the other 2 classes). I'm interested in there's any counterplay anyone can think of but there honestly isn't any (and again before someone says it - yes, we know we can swap, thats not the point of this discussion. If GF makes swapping free then maybe thats a viable argument lmao).

only counterplay is luck,like i had 4 black holes in 30 hours,my mate is down 20 million points in last month
second one is on zero last month,so thats why im telling you guys its not just the class,also is luck and balls,
is it stronger then other 2? it is
is it overpowered? it is if you 0-24 farm with probes and sending expo,fleet etc

Quote from Dic031

only counterplay is luck,like i had 4 black holes in 30 hours,my mate is down 20 million points in last month
second one is on zero last month,so thats why im telling you guys its not just the class,also is luck and balls,
is it stronger then other 2? it is
is it overpowered? it is if you 0-24 farm with probes and sending expo,fleet etc

If you are losing so many resources to black holes, why don't you stop crying and switch to General class and raid instead?

Quote from Divinity

Ye, problem is, as far as the total statistics go, they just need to keep sending more and they'll turn fat profits. If they arent turning a massive profit they simply aren't sending often enough You personally know that blackholes, while annoying, having really slowed down your astronomical point gain. Only thing probably slowing you down at this point is lack of deut + laziness to send, but those are quite nice problems to have haha

u guys forgeting the main thing...deut consumption,for"big players" who sending massive fleet in expos
they need to have 10 multi acs for deut or ppls in alliance to trade 2 1 1 otherwise no point

Quote from Mobius1

If you are losing so many resources to black holes, why don't you stop crying and switch to General class and raid instead?

whos crying here ? lol

Quote from Dic031

u guys forgeting the main thing...deut consumption,for"big players" who sending massive fleet in expos
they need to have 10 multi acs for deut or ppls in alliance to trade 2 1 1 otherwise no point

A fleeter making hits of that magnitude will also have to pay deut.

Quote from Dic031

whos crying here ? lol

It's called sarcasm. You are using black holes and deut costs as a straw man, to somehow act like it's such a hard life making billions.

IRL, the term for that is "First world problems."

"Waaaah, my wallet has so much money in it, it's hard to sit"

This is essentially you right now.

Quote from Mobius1

The only real counterplay is moon destruction, I think. And I don't think a lot of Discoverers are building RIPs or many Destroyers, to counter RIPs.

Nope. I am targeted by a Discoverer 30 ranks above me and he is constantly doing one thing - Expo expo expo and the way he gets me is MD - I can not counter as he keeps his fleet behind 1 bil defense, no counter play, no nothing. Biggest turtle ever who basically just tries pushing people out of the game.

so from experience, Discoverers are suffocating lower ranked Generals with no counter-play available. It's a real interesting scenario I've partly put myself in. If you want I can provide pictures of why turtling/fleeter hybrid discoverers are literally unbeatable in that sense.

Also - Just ignore dic031, it's just an apparent troll without the ability to coherently write one sentence.

Quote from Disturbance

Nope. I am targeted by a Discoverer 30 ranks above me and he is constantly doing one thing - Expo expo expo and the way he gets me is MD - I can not counter as he keeps his fleet behind 1 bil defense, no counter play, no nothing. Biggest turtle ever who basically just tries pushing people out of the game.

so from experience, Discoverers are suffocating lower ranked Generals with no counter-play available. It's a real interesting scenario I've partly put myself in. If you want I can provide pictures of why turtling/fleeter hybrid discoverers are literally unbeatable in that sense.

Also - Just ignore dic031, it's just an apparent troll without the ability to coherently write one sentence.

im troll cuz im better player then you?? oh yea,everything si because of discoverer
my bad

Quote from Disturbance

Nope. I am targeted by a Discoverer 30 ranks above me and he is constantly doing one thing - Expo expo expo and the way he gets me is MD - I can not counter as he keeps his fleet behind 1 bil defense, no counter play, no nothing. Biggest turtle ever who basically just tries pushing people out of the game.

so from experience, Discoverers are suffocating lower ranked Generals with no counter-play available. It's a real interesting scenario I've partly put myself in. If you want I can provide pictures of why turtling/fleeter hybrid discoverers are literally unbeatable in that sense.

Also - Just ignore dic031, it's just an apparent troll without the ability to coherently write one sentence.

Well, no turtle is safe in ACS.

I'm not saying it's ample or reasonable counter play. I'm just saying that's about the only counter play there is for it.